Views on magic and the supernatural.

Just wondering what you lot thought about the less tangible, and the possible existence of supernatural creatures and magic.

they exist as much as god... not at all...

I think that we kid ourselves if we think we understand a fraction of all that there is to know though.

If I recall, there is nowhere in the bible were God or Jesus say that they are the only forces at work on this earth. Besides, I was raised with a vaguely Wiccan view of things and have had experience of my own that suggest to me there are more forces at work than just the tangible ones.

My views on magic/supernatural/etc. is the same as my views on god.

It's there or it isn't. If it happens to me, like a fireball comes at me from some guy's hand after chanting or a ghost haunts me, then I'll truly believe. And that can be the same with science! Just because scientists say it's like this doesn't make it set in stone.

*Waits for the day a planet is discovered inside out. And gravity goes up instead of down.*

Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence. If it's out there, I'm sure we'll find out all about it in time. It's an exciting time, and it looks to be even more cool in the future.

At present, praying seems largely indistinguishable from talking to yourself. And magic wastes alot of peoples' time at the cost of sensible/plausible/proven-efficacy treatments.

Ghosts? Sure, they might exist. But, to spend the afterlife, the opportunity to 'say goodbye' to the material world knocking things over in bad lighting conditions, especially things which might fall over of their own accord?

I can go bump in the night when I'm alive.

Xisor wrote:I can go bump in the night when I'm alive.

The Bible contradicts itself slightly in the respect of "other forces at work", as it does in many things. In Exodus, the magicians of Pharaoh are shown to have real power- they can duplicate many of the stunts that Moses pulls, rendering them less significant- which is why God eventually turns it up to eleven with the killing of the firstborn. However, much of the rest of the Torah is taken up with God denouncing the worship of other gods, insisting that he's the only one and that there can't be any others and so on. This is borne out most savagely in the Elijah vs. Prophets of Baal sequence in which the Baal prophets are shown to be followers of a false god, because they can't perform miracles, and then murdered.

The New Testament is rather more "domestic" in its teachings and concerns itself less with idolatry and blasphemy than with assurance and diktats of worship (that's ignoring anomalies like Revelation, of course), so the question of other gods, or whatever, is less likely even to come up. I haven't read it in detail, but I can't recall an instance in which it's mentioned- however the context in which it's presented suggests that the uniqueness of God is a given. The Devil, mind, is presented in both the Old and New as having a degree of supranatural earthly power, and the reason why he has it is the basis for a very old and still unresolved theological debate. (I still can't get my head around the Book of Job, personally).

There's probably an historical basis for the inconsistency of the Old Testament, in that it's widely theorised the Jews weren't truly monotheistic until after the Assyrian invasion in 701 BC, and that the apparently miraculous defeat of a far superior power led them to believe that their God was not only real, but supreme, and eventually, by extension, that all other gods were false.

You have to wonder what would have happened had Sennacherib succeeded in doing to Judah what he did to Israel. No Judaism, so no Christianity- something similar to Islam might have happened, but not in the same way. Zoroastrianism would likely have become the progenitor religion, or possibly even Ahuru-Mazda, and that'd have changed the whole course of human history.

As to whether I believe in the supernatural, I'm a sceptic, but I also subscribe to the whole "more things in heaven and earth" view so can't rule out the existence of supernatural phenomena or beings. However, as an empiricist, I'd like to see more convincing evidence than I currently have before accepting it as true, which likely means an actual encounter with something supernatural myself.

As to whether I believe in the supernatural, I'm a sceptic, but I also subscribe to the whole "more things in heaven and earth" view so can't rule out the existence of supernatural phenomena or beings. However, as an empiricist, I'd like to see more convincing evidence than I currently have before accepting it as true, which likely means an actual encounter with something supernatural myself.

I agree with pretty much everything Ath says here, but have heard anecdotal evidence in support. Examples include sheep in Wales working out how to get across cattle-grids only months after sheep in New Zealand, despite no sheep coming across; and people being (apparently) demonstrably faster at solving news paper cross words the day after they're released.

Well, I'm of the belief that since we are here (well, only on a part time basis on my part), then there should be a another world out there with life (of some description) on it.

To claim aliens don't exist is just stupid, to think any other life-form will be less technologically advanced than us is asking for repeated kicks in the short and curlies. So really, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several races of alien life forms out there watching us and having a damn good laugh. Welcome to Galactic big brother.

Next time you look at a fish tank, imagine that you are the fish, swimming around thinking you are the only thing in the tank, and then contemplate what might be on the other side of the glass, watching you. And if you snuff it, then the galactic toilet bowl beckons....

sounds like a waterpark ride.